Episode 10: Reframing What It Means to Be Autistic with Dr. Melinda Edwards

In this episode of the Exceptional Girls podcast, I’m thrilled to be joined by Dr. Melinda Edwards. As the mother of an autistic daughter and a practicing physician, Dr. Edwards’ views on autism may surprise you. 

Listen in as Dr. Edwards shares:

• How her initial feelings of grief and loss about her daughter's diagnosis shifted in a dramatic way
• The profound insights she's learned about being autistic from her daughter Saachi
• How she rectifies the typical medical definition of autism with her own spiritual understanding of it
• Her comforting advice for those who are still coming to terms with an autism diagnosis

About Dr. Melinda Edwards, MD:
Dr. Edwards is a practicing physician in Charleston, South Carolina. She's also mom to Saachi, her autistic daughter, and the founder and president of Living Darshan, a non-profit organization that’s fostering a deeper understanding of autism in the world.

Dr. Edwards attended the Medical University of South Carolina and completed her residency in psychiatry at Stanford Medical Center. Also a writer, Dr. Edwards is a columnist for Autism Parenting Magazine, as well as the author of the Amazon bestselling book PSYCHE & SPIRIT: How a Psychiatrist Found Divinity Through Her Lifelong Quest for Truth and Her Daughter’s Autism.

To learn more about Dr. Edwards, visit www.melindaedwardsmd.com. 

About the Exceptional Girls podcast
If you know and care deeply about a girl who learns, thinks, and experiences the world differently, I invite you to journey with me as we learn how we as parents, adults, and role models can help her understand, self-advocate, accept, and love herself — just as she is. To learn more, visit www.exceptionalgirlspodcast.com.

Transcript

Julie Withrow (Host) (00:09): Hi, Dr. Edwards. I'm so happy to have you here today and get to have this conversation. So welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (00:17): Thank you so much, Julie. It's really an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. Julie Withrow (Host) (00:22):

You bring such a beautiful perspective to the conversation about autism. I'm really excited to get to talk with you today and get to share your story with our listeners. But before we talk about where you stand on autism today and what your perspectives are on it now, I'd like to go back to the beginning of your parenting journey. I mean, for many parents, and I would imagine for you as well, right? An autism diagnosis can be kind of a big blow. It's not necessarily what we all signed up for when we decided to become parents. And I just love to learn more about your experiences when you first learned that your daughter Saachi had autism.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (01:13): Yeah, when you said a big blow inside of me, it was like, that's even quite the understatement for myself at that time. And I would have to back up to when Saachi was born, I was astounded and thrown into this complete space of love because her spirit brought with her this openness and love and oneness, this sense of oneness that I had never really experienced before. But I did notice along the way that there were uniquenesses and what we would call from a medical perspective delays, developmental delays. She wouldn't look at me, she just seemed to be in another world. I could jump up and down in front of her and she still wouldn't look at me. And then just kind of some sort of typical developmental delays, not sitting up on time or talking. And so I started to wonder, I took her to the pediatrician appointments and everything seemed to be on par, but I was noticing these delays.

(02:22) So finally I mentioned to the pediatrician, she's not responding when I point, and that apparently is one of the pathognomonic or key symptoms of autism. And so she referred me for an evaluation, but at that time, I just knew in my gut that there was something different going on. So I remember it so clearly. We remember traumatic moments in our life, and to me it was traumatic in that moment. My perspective has shifted 180 degrees since then. But at that moment, I remember so clearly it was this morning standing in front of the washer and dryer. Saachi was taking a nap, which she hardly ever does. And I was busting around trying to get stuff done while she was, and I pulled out my, it's called a DSM port. It's a psychiatric diagnostic manual. I work with adults, mostly not children. So I'm not used to diagnosing autism as much.

(03:23) Plus it was my daughter, so I wasn't looking at her like a patient. But I went through the childhood disorders. And when I got to autism, every single symptom, she met criteria with every single symptom. And I just remember the blood, Julie going from my head down to my feet and just being utterly and completely devastated. And I knew at that moment that she had autism or that was going to be her diagnosis. And sure enough, it was confirmed a month later. But I would say that the two things that came forward for me had been in this space of love since she had been born. She was diagnosed at 16 months of age, but then fear came forward. And for me it was fear of two things. And I suspect that other parents can relate to this too. Number one, a huge fear was will she be able to share love with other human beings?

(04:30) Because to me, that is what life is all about. And the second thing, particularly as a single parent, she doesn't have any siblings. What if she won't be able to function independently, who will take care of her when I'm gone? And that was pure terror. And still, even as I speak about it, I can feel that fear, just a primal parenting fear. So the diagnosis was devastating at that time. And there were, as we moved through stages of her growth and development therapies and all that, there were layers of grief that I had great hope that I could, it really pains me to say this, but at that time, my focus was trying to get her more normal or get her more sort of developmentally on par with everybody else. And when she was young, I had great hopes and tried, threw myself into it 10000%, all the therapies. But each milestone that we weren't reaching. And when I would have to come to terms with, wow, this may or may not be reached, there would be another layer of grief. So a gradual acceptance of this sort of formal diagnosis. So it was devastating. And there were many layers of grief that went with accepting this diagnosis of autism in that particular paradigm of autism.

Julie Withrow (Host) (05:58): Listening to you speak, it reminds me of my own experience, and I'm sure others can relate to of when you first learn your child is different in some way. I think the tendency is to go into this problem solving mode. How can I get, like you said, how can I get her up to where she should be developmentally? And I think we all do a lot of things that way as parents, trying to get our kids to be more typical and to get them caught up with everybody else. And so it's a great segue to talk more about how you shifted. So I mean, just knowing a little bit about your story, it kind of reminds me of the book, eat, pray, love, which I loved. And I feel like you have kind of lived a similar experience, went on these spiritual journeys and lived in India and learned from a lot of different spiritual teachers.

(07:07) And I'm curious now though, because I feel like even though you were always on this quest, and isn't this how life works? It seems like you found your greatest spiritual teacher in your own daughter. So here now you have this teacher who is someone you created and is this huge part of your life. But getting from where you started with a diagnosis to hear, obviously there took a long time and a lot of experiences and a lot of, I'm sure missteps and realizations and things to get there. But I'm curious if there was this pivotal moment for you where that shifted, where you knew Saachi is special and the light bulb kind of went on for you.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (07:55): Yeah. Oh, I love this question. So I mean, before the diagnosis, I knew there was something about her from the moment she was born. She brought this field of love with her into our home, and everybody could sense it. My heart was busted wide open, but it was challenging. She never slept. She was exquisitely sensitive to sounds and lights and all of that, and cried a lot, had horrible colic for nine, 10 months. But even in the midst of all those challenges before this diagnosis, there was this profound love. So I was swimming in that. Now I am trying to figure out where to back up to here, but you touched on something that I want to provide a little bit of a bigger context.

Julie Withrow (Host) (08:45): Yeah, please.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (08:46): You touched on my spiritual journey, and Julie, from the time I was young, I grew up in am Mayan Indian Village in Guatemala. My parents were medical missionaries. From the time I was young, I experienced this really, really intense longing for truth. And it came from deep inside. And the truth is that almost nothing else, really nothing else mattered in my life. I went about my life, I went through childhood, the traumas of my childhood, college, medical school, all that stuff, but really this longing for truth and my spiritual journey with meditation, retreat, spiritual teachers, all that stuff, India. That was my life's longing, and I was seeking this deeper truth. And when Saatchi was born, that longing disappeared because I was experiencing it in her presence. Now, we touched on the fear that came and started driving the show once she got her diagnosis.

(09:48) So I started seeing her more, not completely exclusively, but pretty exclusively through this autism lenses and trying to get her, for all of us parents, it comes from a place of love. We don't want them to suffer, so we want them to be able to function better in the world and be more like other people. So it's misguided, but it really comes from a place of love. Also comes from that place of fear that I described that she might not be able to take care of herself. What happened for me was there were glimpses, even as I had shifted into the fear or been wrenched into the fear, there were glimpses along the way that brought me back and reminded me, and there were several pivotal moments, not just one, but a couple that I'll share.
(10:40)
One was she kept on speaking my thoughts, and I just denied it for a while. I just would say, oh, I must've said that at some point when she learned how to talk, she just kept on speaking my thoughts. She would say exactly what I was thinking in that moment. So at some point I couldn't deny that anymore, and I just was, my jaw dropped and it was like an aha, like the clouds partying, like, oh my goodness, there is more going on here than this autism story. And then another time was that really stands out for me was we worked on pronouns for so long along with the million other things we worked on, but she just couldn't understand pronouns and still gets them mixed up to this day. So she just would mix them all up. And a friend came over one day and Saatchi said to her something like, you show you your room or something. And I was really exhausted at that point with working with the pronouns. We had been doing it for years. It's really hard to work on pronouns if you think about it.
(11:54)
So I just kind of sighed and I said, Mary, she is saying, I'll show you my room. She just doesn't understand pronouns. And my friend Mary is very intuitive, and she said, of course she doesn't understand pronouns for her. There is no separation. There is no me in you. She's in that place. And she didn't go into all those words, but I knew what she was talking about. She is residing in that place of oneness. And my goodness, that just about floored me because that place of oneness was the place that my heart knew is at the core of all of us and the place that I had been seeking all of my life. And it rang so true what my friend said that Saatchi was residing in that place that I had been seeking all my life. So that was a big one. I don't know how many stories you want me to get into. There's more, but maybe you might want to shift gears. I could tell you many more. There were many moments, but I would say for me, it was a gradual opening more and more and just in my face, not being able to deny that she was actually living in that space of pure openness, porousness, oneness, love, truth, God, whatever word we have for it. She was living that truth, being that truth residing in that place that I had been looking for.

Julie Withrow (Host) (13:26): Yeah, I mean that's really profound. And when you said it right, it kind of gave me goosebumps. I totally understand what you were seeking, how your friend articulated that and how you could really see that. And it's a great lead up to talk about how you see autism today, and I'd love you to talk more about that and tell stories. But I want to really understand what Saachi has taught you and what can Saachi and people like Saachi teach us all?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (14:02): Yes. I think what she has taught me about autism sort of on a we'll dive in deeper, but on a more superficial level, if we're just looking at what we call symptoms or what the medical paradigm calls symptoms, that the symptoms of autism are just a manifestation of this exquisite, exquisite sensitivity of heart and spirit. So Saachi and my friends that I know on the spectrum and my patients that I work with on the spectrum, all of them are such open beings. They don't have the walls and defenses that the rest of us have developed. They never developed those. They're so open and porous that they absorb everything around them. There's nothing there to protect 'em. And again, just in terms of the pronouns, there's no me and you. So Saachi feels everybody's feelings. She feels my feelings, she feels anybody's feelings who walk through the door. She might, for all I know, she's feeling the person in the car that drives by our house when they have symptoms like a meltdown or their body is exquisitely sensitive, like her GI tract is sensitive. She's sensitive to loud sounds. When she was younger, she was sensitive to bright lights.
(15:30)
Any other number of symptoms. And the core symptom that the medical paradigm refers to is lack of social connection, which is it looks that way on the surface, but these symptoms are masking what's going on underneath. So this lack of social connection, it couldn't be further from the truth. They are so deeply connected that their physical body or maybe their facial expression has to shut down because they're experiencing everything internally. So I don't know if that answers the first part of your question, but bottom line, the symptoms are a manifestation of this openness of heart and spirit.
(16:24)
I would say in terms of other aspects of autism and the way I view it, saachi is my greatest teacher by far. And when I am in her presence or in the presence of any other person on the spectrum, just by their very presence, I'm brought into a more sensitive place of being. And I don't know if that makes sense, if I'm using words that you can hear or understand, but it's not like she's my teacher talking to me about wisdom or love or oneness. No, she's not talking about it at all. She's being it. And so by being around that, it's just like if we're around an angry person, we start absorbing their stuff. Or if we're around a super kind and gentle person, we can feel that and soften Saachi and these other beings are residing in this oneness and sensitivity and vulnerability.
(17:32)
So when we're around that, it pulls us into that place too. Another way she's my teacher is because she's so sensitive and open, she reflects back to me everything I'm feeling. So more times than not, if she's having a meltdown, it's because she's sensing my stress or something in me, or even joy or joy gets sort of shared back and forth. She's sensing my joy and I'm sensing hers. She reflects back to me myself. And the beauty of that, particularly for those of us on an intentional journey of personal growth or spiritual growth, is she reflects back to me the places in myself that I might otherwise turn away from, either consciously or unconsciously, because it's hard to be with. So when she reflects back to me, my grief or my sadness or my anger, I have to be with that. She's my mirror. I have to be with that. And that opens my heart more. Anytime we are present with our own challenges, our own challenging emotions, whether it looks like it's outside of us or inside of us, it's all the same. There really is no outside or inside. But when we are present with that and really drop into that and open to that, instead of turning away from it, we drop more and more into our hearts and more and more into that place where our precious folks on the spectrum reside.

Julie Withrow (Host) (19:09): Well, exactly. And we also move through those feelings. What you resist persists, but if you can actually be with it, then those feeling lose their power and then you can move through. I love to hear you talk about it because it's such a beautiful experience. I imagine it must also be challenging at times too, though, because there are probably things there that much as we should want to be present with, we don't want to be present with. And now that Saachi's gotten older and we know what it's like to raise tweens and teens and all these things, is it hard to stay present with all of that?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (20:01): It is not all joy. I'm the first person to say that. In fact, I mentioned to you before we got on that I was kind of tired because she had had a big meltdown this morning. But it teaches me to be present with whatever comes up.
(20:18)
I can tell you more stories just from this past week of things that came up. And I notice the beauty is we get to see our growth as we go along. I notice that I'm not thrown off by things much anymore, still sometimes, but we develop, it's like exercising muscles. We exercise our capacity to be present with uncomfortable things. So she was listening to music the other day on a phone that doesn't work or so I thought, it's just for music. Well, next thing I know, I'm out in the kitchen. She's in her bedroom, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang on my door. I go to the door, I see a squirm of police officers and these police at my door, and I'm like, what's going on? And I started putting two and two together, my little brain, as they started talking, someone called in distress yelling in the background.
(21:12)
Well, Saachi had been in her room. She sings loudly. She talks to her dog wilder all the time, loud, really loud, but you can't really understand what she sang. A lot of times you have to ask her to be really clear. So she had been in her room and apparently the nine one one, you know how on phones it can just pop up and it's a little too easy to call. We had been teaching her how to call 9 1 1, her therapist and I, in the event of an emergency. And so she called and I guess she was singing. And the 9 1 1 operator thought, it didn't sound like singing. It sounded like yelling or in distress or something. So they came. I had to show them that she was okay. But I noticed inside myself now five years ago, it wouldn't have been this way, but I noticed inside myself, it was just like, oh, okay, this is the next thing that's up.
(21:56)
And we were at our friends the other night and I had just said to them, it's just quite a ride. We tend to leave chaos in our wake everywhere we go, by the way, we can choose to be embarrassed or get all ruffled about that. And if we do get ruffled, then it's good work on ourself. We get to be present. What is it? Am I worried about what other people are thinking? Is there fear behind it? Or you can also look at it from the perspective of it's really good for all of us to be shaken up some and almost be nudged outside of our box of norms because that broadens our ability to accept and be present with. So I try to see it that way when we leave chaos in our wake. But we were at our friend's the other night. We were playing Uno, Saachi had a big sneeze and sneezed it right into the placemat on the table, and she tends to have a lot of snot. Then she flips the place mat over and just blew her nose in it. And I saw everyone around. None of them are super familiar with folks on the spectrum and their unique ways of being. It was just something right in front of her, not trying to do anything wrong. She doesn't get the rules,
(23:19)
And I love that about her. And so I saw everyone just kind of, and it was what it was. So just a few examples from most recent days, but I could tell you a million stories, but earlier on, Julie, those types of, I mean to put it very mildly, lack of social etiquette, just completely breaking the rules would've thrown me off a lot more. And I would've been more tight or stressed out about it. When she used to play soccer, she didn't understand the rules. She would kick the ball out from under the ref's foot or grab the ball from or kick it in the wrong goal. She great soccer player, but just didn't get the rules. And we need more of people who don't get the rules in our lives. We need to not be so rule-based our hearts open when we aren't so constricted by our mind and rules and structure.

Julie Withrow (Host) (24:15): Completely and when we aren't, and it really forces us. I love that you touched on this, to not care so much what other people think. Especially I think if we, and this often is the case because these differences are often inherited if we have also kind of gone through our lives being a little different, masking, masking, masking, trying to please everybody and be normal and all these things, it can be very hard to accept in our kids when we see them breaking the rules. This was very hard for me, but again, it's been a great lesson for me to not care so much what other people think. It's real basic. But yeah, it really brought up for me how much I do try so hard to fit in, not do the wrong things. You know what I mean? It really puts it right there in your face.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (25:12): Yes, exactly. That's our kids being our mirror. That's what I mean by that. They show us where we get embarrassed, where we are not completely free in ourselves or we have these internal contractions and constrictions. Yeah, I love it that you're highlighting that.

Julie Withrow (Host) (25:28): Yeah, I mean, I remember feeling this way and still to this day, and I tell this to everybody, particularly my friends who don't have kids and are curious what it's like to have kids. And I always say, my child is my biggest teacher. They reflect so much back to me because, and to me as someone who loves to learn, and one of my core values is to always be growing, having a child, and especially having a child who challenges you, to have to think about things differently and look at yourself differently is a tremendous growth opportunity.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (26:13): It is. I have said before that at some level, whether it's a soul level or whatever we want to call it, we chose a curriculum here on this planet as human beings, a real advanced and accelerated curriculum because for those of us with autism or neurodivergent folks in our lives, because it's so intense,
(26:43)
It's so intense. And that brings me to something else. It's so intense for our kids who are neurodivergent to be here because they are vibrating at a different frequency than the rest of the world. They're vibrating at a much more subtle frequency. They're more sensitive, like I said before, more open, more porous, and the rest of us, the rest of us are functioning at a more concrete, gross level than they are. And so imagine going into maybe another planet that's just, I think of that movie Planet of the Apes sometimes, where the apes are just, most of them are functioning at this gross, harsh level. And by gross, I mean less subtle, not gross. And these human beings are just horrified by it. And so these sensitive beings are coming in now, more and more of them, and they're shifting the consciousness of our planet because they are functioning at a whole other level. They can't help but bring the rest of us into that level.

Julie Withrow (Host) (28:07): I think it's a great viewpoint on the neurodiversity movement generally, right? I mean, that's kind of what it's about. It's like biodiversity at its core is that you need this diversity. And I feel like this kind of plays into that. But what I really love is I love that you have, I don't know, I don't want to use the term metaphysical because I think it has for some people, maybe it sounds too woowoo or whatever, but I love the perspective you bring to things. But I will admit, it was surprising to me initially because as a physician, I might expect you to look at the world a little differently. And you've touched on it a little bit, but there is this pathologized way of looking at differences like autism. And as a physician, it would be very easy to fall into that same way of looking at things. So did you ever struggle with that to rectify this sort of spiritual calling that you have with this sort of medical training and this other way of looking at things?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (29:16): Yes. They used to feel very divergent, like one foot in one world and the other foot in the other. And in fact, at one point I took time off from medical school thinking I was going to quit because it just wasn't in alignment with what I knew to be true. But I wrote to of my spiritual teachers, and he recommended that. He suggested that I stay in it knowing that it could be more work on myself, whatever was coming up about my medical training, and also knowing that the medical degree down the road could open more doors in terms of my work in the world and my ability to serve. So I'm glad that I completed it. What I would say now is there's room for both. I'm not fond of pathologizing it, but I kind of frame it in different terms. What I feel or what I sense are four different aspects of existence.
(30:27)
The first is the physical realm, and that's anything that we perceive through the five senses. See, hear, taste, touch, smell. The next is the psychological realm. And that realm includes our emotions, all of our thoughts, our personality tendencies. The third aspect of existence or way that we can perceive the world is the spiritual, where we sense a connection. By spiritual, I don't mean religious. It has nothing to do with religion. This is just that we've all had moments where we feel a connection, whether it's feeling deep compassion for someone who's suffering, you're feeling some of their pain or watching a beautiful sunset, you're just thrown into a state of awe and oneness. Some people find it when they surf. Some of us just seeing a baby, a sweet innocent baby. We've all experienced that. And so that's that aspect. Then there's the foundation of all existence, which is oneness, and that is what we all are at our core. It's not just Melinda Edwards saying that of all the religious mystics have come to that and the quantum physicists have come to the same truth. That oneness is the foundation of all existence.
(31:43)
So swinging back around to the medical paradigm, it is perceiving through the physical level of existence that I talked about, what we perceive through the five sense. It's very left brain, there's room for it, it's valuable, and it can be helpful and useful to identify what we call symptoms. I'm not talking about pathologizing, but characteristics. It can be very helpful for our minds to understand things in terms of groups of qualities or characteristics that tend to go with particular people or types of personalities or that kind of thing. And certainly with medical illnesses, what tends to go with high blood pressure or diabetes. So it's just one aspect of existence. But here's the issue. If you're perceiving only through the physical realm, you are missing out on so much more. There is so much more to life and existence, and the medical paradigm tends to exclusively see through that lens of the physical or biological. And again, that's okay. Dip into it when it's useful, but it's not the only truth.

Julie Withrow (Host) (32:57): Right. Well, and I think part of it is just culturally that we put so much weight on that one particular aspect without me putting as much weight or maybe just not understanding the interconnections. I think thinking about it in these four levels, and they all need to exist, kind of helps put it all in context to better understand it. And even just the language we use, we could use the term characteristics instead of symptoms. And right there, that changes the whole feeling around it. I think language is such an important part of it and why I tend to use the term differences instead of diagnoses. It's all really intentional just to try to shift us out of this pathologized way of thinking and talking and looking at it. 

Dr. MelindaEdwards (Guest) (33:49): Exactly. Because along with that pathologized perspective comes the idea that everybody should fit within this box or be within this.

Julie Withrow (Host) (33:58): That's right. Or there's something wrong with you if you don't fit in the box. It's always what's wrong instead of maybe there's nothing wrong. It's just different.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (34:10): And so kind of circling back around to something else we were talking about too, our children and those of us who are neurodivergent are gifts to the world. And so when they cause a little bit of a ruckus or ruffle some feathers or help expand people's world, paradigms out in the world, it's a gift to the world. Our children are gifts to the world. So even as we are present with the things that them being a gift brings up in us when they're touching somebody else's silty shorts like my daughter used to do, even as we're getting to be present with those challenging issues inside of ourselves, know that them ruffling some feathers is a gift. It's a gift because it's expanding. It's helping to expand everybody's ability to open to uniquenesses and including their own. We all have our uniquenesses.

Julie Withrow (Host) (35:12): And in a time where diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging are really starting to become more prevalent, people are talking about it more and more and it's more in the forefront. This is all kind of part and parcel of that. It helps us all reexamine how we can be more inclusive, how we can be more accepting. And it's really beautiful. And really, I think it's kind of the foundation of the work that you do now. It seems to me like that's kind of what it's all built on. So I'd love to hear more about that and have you share more about the work you do in your nonprofit Living Darshan. And for starters, I'd love to understand where that name came from, but I'd also just love to learn more about what drew you to this work and what that work is.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (36:09): Okay. So the name of the nonprofit, it is a 501c3, is Living Darshan. Darshan is a Hindu word that translates into recognizing the divinity in another. And so by divinity not, we aren't using it in the traditional sense like a religious sense. It's more recognizing the oneness in another. So living Darshan is recognizing that place of love, love with a capital L, not romantic love, not the true love and oneness that we all are at our core in another. So we're recognizing it in these beings on the spectrum, and they are reflecting what we are back to us. So of course, Darshan was inspired by my journey with my daughter, and our mission with Darshan is just to deepen the understanding of autism in the world. On one level, for folks on the spectrum and all neurodivergent folks, it's not just autism on one level and the most superficial level, I guess I would say, so that they feel at home in this world and welcomed in this world.
(37:34)
But on another level, and what I think is happening on a deeper level, deepening the understanding of where they are residing because, and I'm not just talking about mentally understanding. I'm talking about each of us dropping more and more into our hearts because that's how we truly meet them where they're at. If we want to be present for our children, we have to transform ourselves. It's not just a mental process. It's a process that happens as we drop our own barriers and our own defenses and our own walls and fall more and more deeply into that place of love where they reside, then we're meeting them where they're at. And let me tell you something, they light up like shining lights when they are met fully like that. And we do too because we recognize that that's what we are. So Darin is about, yes, autism on one level and creating a more accepting world, but on another level, and I think it's deepest and truest level, it's about bringing all of us more and more deeply into our hearts.

Julie Withrow (Host) (38:48): So how do you create the spaces and the places for that to happen?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (38:53): So we have two aspects. One is our education and outreach aspect. So we do community events, talks, podcasts, just sharing our understanding of, and we go to different events and presentations, things like that. And then the other aspect is we are going to be building a residential center for adults on the spectrum, a long-term residential center where they will be able to reside as long as they would like, where they'll have the support they need to live in the world. But it also will be, so we will provide for all the sensitivities and other types of support that they need. But also we will have a community center where people who do not live there can come and people on the spectrum, office spectrum, anybody can come and take part in workshops, activities with this deeper understanding that when we are in the presence of people who are so open and porous, we can't help but shift. So it's sort of merging these two sort of separate worlds that are starting to merge in other ways, but we're just going to create an intentional space where that can happen at another level.

Julie Withrow (Host) (40:21): Yeah, that's really cool. So your facility will be in the Charleston area? Is that where you want to build?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (40:27): The greater Charleston, South Carolina area. Yeah, we're looking for property and also fundraising. So it's not going to happen over the next year or two, but I'm imagining we'll probably break ground within four years or so.

Julie Withrow (Host) (40:44): Got it. Yeah. Well, it's quite a big undertaking, but really cool that you're creating this really physical place for people to come together, which is a ton of work, right? I'm sure it's a very ambitious goal, but really exciting. 
(41:04)
So before we wrap up, this has been such an enlightening conversation, and as I said at the beginning, I really love the perspective that you bring to this conversation and also that you're a physician and are bringing this perspective. I just think it's really, you're a great role model in a lot of ways for people to challenge maybe the way they've thought about things traditionally. So thank you for sharing. It's really been great. But before we wrap up, there's a question that I always like to ask my guests, and it's really for you. What I'd like to know is for moms or other parents or caregivers who are earlier in their journey with a child with an autism diagnosis or any sort of a difference that they've become aware of, if they're having challenges with that, and it's natural, our kids can be challenging to raise, this is a reality, but how, if you had to offer them any piece of advice or something to maybe help them see a light in all of this, what would that advice be?

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (42:21): A couple things. But first of all, just to say my heart goes out to you and know that you are not alone, that we are all in this together. Even if we aren't communicating, we are all in this together. And my heart just goes out in compassion because it is an intense path that we have chosen at one level. On a deeper level even I would say we are, each one of us is on a journey back home to the love that we really are. And our path is intense. And like I said earlier, we have chosen a really advanced souls curriculum at one level. Our children know that, and they are here to guide us even as we are parenting on the physical level, supporting them. I work with my daughter, support her towards independence as much as I can, but at another level, just know that there is something deeper and much more important going on, and you are a part of that. And as challenging as it is, and as much as it might not feel like a gift on most days, we are so fortunate to have these beings in our lives.
(43:48)
We are truly blessed to have these beings in our lives, and they are our greatest teachers. But really just coming back around to the compassion that I feel and knowing that it's hard, it's not easy. But remember also that our transformation, transformation is really the greatest gift that we can give to our children. So keep that in mind as you navigate all the challenges with your children.

Julie Withrow (Host) (44:17): Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard in the moment we're all going to make mistakes and not show up the way we wish we would have, maybe in hindsight. But I love that you're highlighting that we really have a choice in and how we choose to look at things, how we choose to move through the world, how we choose to respond when we learn that our kids are different in some way, but we have to make that choice over and over and over and over.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (44:51): Yes, it's not a one-time thing. And I think, I don't know about you, Julie, but I am a pro at the mommy guilt thing, and I'm just learning more and more and more. You mentioned messing up or whatever that guilt does. It does no good. It just weighs me down and makes me less present with my child, with my daughter. So let's all just intentionally and repeatedly let that one go. It's not useful in any way. That frees us up on so many other levels. Julie Withrow (Host) (45:23):

Yeah, truly. And the more I, I'm sure you've experienced this yourself, the more we are accepting of our kids and just letting them be who they are and different, the more accepting we learn to become of ourselves, which is really powerful.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (45:42): I have to highlight that because you just summed everything up in a nutshell, and it's vice versa, too. When we are fully present and are able to accept them, we are able to accept ourselves. But also when we're more able to accept what's inside of us, we naturally are more accepting of what's inside of everybody else. So there really isn't separation. When we accept any parts of anybody, ourselves or others, we drop more into that place of oneness in our heart.

Julie Withrow (Host) (46:16): Yeah, you said that so beautifully. I'm glad that worked out the way it did. I feel like we put a nice bow around the conversation with that. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you sharing your story, and the work that you're doing in the world is so important.

Dr. Melinda Edwards (Guest) (46:53): Thank you so much, Julie. It's really been a joy to talk with you and to share.